Saturday, June 30, 2007

Appendix: Rev. Jim Sutter’s List of non-Islamist Terrorist Groups

Note: This Appendix should be read in conjunction with the immediately previous essay on this blog, Rev. Jim Sutter’s Sorites of Beans Revisited. Further amplification and explanation for this list will be found there. Note: emphases in bold in the following descriptions were added by me.

* * * * *

The ARA (Armenian Revolutionary Army)

Strength: Group is inactive

Classification: Nationalist/Separatist [not “Religious”]

Last Attack: Mar. 12, 1985

“The last act of the ARA (Armenian Revolutionary Army) terrorism took place in 1985, and no further activity is expected.”

The 1st Mechanical Kansas Militia

Strength: Group is inactive

Classification: Right-Wing Conservative, Other [not “Religious”]

“The 1st Mechanical Kansas Militia has not been directly responsible for any terrorist incidents, and only gained notoriety due to the actions of its leader. The group has not been heard from since 1997 [when a few members “hatched a plan to attack a 4th of July celebration at Fort Hood” but were foiled by the F.B.I.] and is likely defunct.”

Cambodian Freedom Fighters

Classification: Nationalist/Separatist [not “Religious”]

“. . . in November 2000. . . seventy CFF militiamen led a coordinated attack on government buildings in Phnom Penh, killing at least eight people and causing significant damage to the facilities. One year later, the group exploded grenades near six government buildings. Luckily there were no fatalities. Cambodian President Hun Sen issued a warrant for the arrest of Chhun Yasith after the 2000 attack, but he has been unable to persuade the United States, which does not have an extradition treaty with Cambodia, to give him up.”

Current Goals: Since 2001, the CFF has been inactive... No further attacks are expected.

Earth Liberation Front

Classification: Environmental [not “Religious”]

“Within the past year, a number of under-construction condominiums and luxury homes have been set on fire by ELF operatives. Subsequent press releases describe an an unbounded war on urban sprawl, adding that we will not tolerate the destruction of our island and if you build it we will burn it.”

“Any direct action to halt the destruction of the environment and adhering to the strict nonviolence guidelines, listed below, can be considered an ELF action. Economic sabotage and property destruction fall within these guidelines.”

Terrorist actions of the ELF include:

“. . . tree spiking, arson, sabotage of logging or construction equipment, and other types of property destruction. Economic damage is often accomplished via acts of vandalism, ranging from breaking windows and gumming locks to setting fires and damaging equipment. . .”

Hammerskin Nation

Strength: Approximately 200 members

Classification: Racist [not “Religious”]

Last Attack: Unknown

“Hammerskins have been linked to numerous brutal attacks and murders in multiple states.” [no citations or sources given]

“Hammerskin Nation appears to be struggling. The group is facing a lawsuit filed by Randy Bowen, a California man who was attacked by six Hammerskins in March of 1999. Hammerskin Press ceased publication in 2000, probably because of internal conflict within the organization. Attendance at annual Hammerfests has declined. The organization is definitely, however, still an active threat to minorities, and some factions, like the splinter group, Outlaw Hammerskins, are growing stronger.”

Okay, so the Hammerskin Nation is a small, struggling racist group that might still attack a few minorities here and there. Of course, the F.B.I. and local law enforcement should keep an eye out on these guys. How is that relevant to the fact that there are innumerable Muslims plotting horrific mass attacks using any available means, including dirty bombs, chemical weapons, biological weapons, or other creative methods of destruction—in addition to the constant possibility of lone Muslims (or small groups thereof) going postal in order to murder Infidels (such as the Chapel Hill Muslim who suddenly decided to run over non-Muslims with his SUV)? Apparently, RJS believes not only that the F.B.I. is incapable of rubbing its stomach and patting its head at the same time, but he also believes that minuscule criminal organizations like the Hammerskin Nation are on a par with—or actually worse than—the various Muslim individuals, groups and cells that threaten multiple nations around the world with mass-murderous destruction.

Now, the next one I chose randomly from the list of supposedly non-Islamist terrorist organization listed by RJS apparently slipped past his sloppy radar: it is a terrorist organization inspired by Islamic symbols and goals! And guess what: of the groups I randomly sampled, this particular Islamist one (El Rukn—as well as the other Islamist group that slipped past the Reverend’s swiss-cheese radar, Islamic Salvation Front, listed a few entries further below) appears quantitatively and qualitatively to be far more deadly than the non-Islamist ones—although, as with most of these groups listed, this one is now deemed defunct anyway.

El Rukn

Aliases: Black P Stones, Blackstone Rangers, The Cornerstone, The Foundation

Classification: Other [not “Religious”—though this seems a curious flaw in the descriptive methodology of this website MIPT, since their description of this terrorist group indicates considerable religious Islamic components]

First Attack: Unknown

Strength: Group is inactive.

Last Attack: Unknown

“After serving four years in prison, [El Rukn founder Jeff] Fort returned to Chicago and renamed the gang, El Rukn (a reference to the Arabic word for “the cornerstone of the Kaaba, an Islamic shrine in Mecca), as a result of his conversion to Islam while incarcerated. Beginning in September of 1986, key El Rukn members, including Jeff Fort, were convicted of conspiring to transport explosives and commit violent acts in the United States on behalf or at the direction of representative of the Government of Libya and also were charged with receiving and possessing firearms and weapons, including hand grenades, fully automatic weapons, and anti-tank weapons. El Rukn members became infamous as their convictions were the first instance in U.S. history where American citizens had been found guilty of planning terrorist acts on behalf of a foreign government in return for money.”

“Although gang members will engage in violent activities in the future, given their current size, status, and preoccupation with gang activity, El Rukn is no longer a group that uses terrorist tactics.”


Hector Riobe Brigade

Strength: Group is inactive

Classification: Nationalist/Separatist [not “Religious”]

Last Attack: Mar. 19, 1983.

“The Hector Riobe Brigade was a group of Haitian exiles who were responsible for several bombings in Haiti in the early 1980s. Vehement opponents of the Jean-Claude Duvalier regime, the group was said to be based in Miami, and made up of approximately 15 individuals.”

Islamic Salvation Front

Again, another Islamist terrorist group slips through the infirm radar of RJS to end up on his list that is supposed to show the greater danger of non-Islamist terrorist groups! And once again, as with the Islamist El Rukn terrorist group above, when one examines the quantitative and qualitative substance of the Islamic Salvation Front below, one sees how much deadlier they are (although no longer a present danger) compared with the mostly picayune non-Islamist terrorist groups listed by RJS that also present various degrees of danger (ranging from defunct and no danger at all to small rag-tag groups presenting the possibility that some may “spike trees” and burn down condos, or attack a minority here and there, to varying degrees of somewhat worse things still less worse than the Islamist terrorist threats.).

Date Formed: 1989

Strength: Greater than 4,000 members

Classification: Religious

Last Attack: Sept. 23, 1992

“After Algerian constitutional reforms allowed the creation of political parties for the first time, the FIS filed for legal recognition and was certified as a political party in September 1989. The group won more than 50% of the votes during municipal elections in June 1990.”

Rev. Jim Sutter, show me a state in the USA where more than 50% would support the KKK or any other non-Islamist terrorist group you listed.

“Although the FIS distanced itself from the GIA's civilian massacres, a January 1995 car bomb at the police headquarters in Algiers killed forty-two people and injured 286.”

“The AIS is no longer considered to be an active insurgent group. A unilateral ceasefire was declared in September 1997. A 16-point plan issued after the first round of voting in 1991 declared the group's intention to expand sharia law to all areas of public and private life in Algeria, including in particular, women's dress and work.”

Ku Klux Klan (KKK)

Strength: Less than 500 members

Classification: Racist [not “Religious”—note the classification of the Islamist group above as “Religious”—and yet RJS adduced this list mainly to counter Spencer’s putative (though, as we saw above, inaccurately described) disregard for the danger emanating from Christian terrorist groups: and here is one of the big guns, one of the most infamous of the home-grown non-Islamist terrorist groups, the big bad KKK, classified—by the very same terrorist watchdog organization which RJS uses and apparently approves of—not as “Religious”, as they classify the previously noted Islamist terrorist group above, but as specifically “Racist”. Not only that: as the following description indicates, the KKK is largely moribund nowadays.

Last Attack: Unknown

“According to the Anti-Defamation League, “Today, there is no such thing as the Ku Klux Klan.” (ADL, 338) The modern Klan has fragmented into multiple small, squabbling factions. Young white supremacists consider the Klan to be antiquated and ineffectual. There are three national umbrella groups (Imperial Klans of America, American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and Knights of the White Kamelia), but most Klan groups are independent of these national organizations. Some factions of the Klan have tried to broaden their appeal by softening their racist rhetoric with euphemisms and taking part in community service programs like Adopt-A-Highway.”

Montana Freemen

Date Formed: September 1995

Strength: Group is inactive

Classification: Right-Wing Reactionary [not “Religious”]

Last Attack:Unknown

“. . . the Clark family, who owed $1.8 million in mortgage payments and taxes, had convened a “common law court” and issued warrants threatening the life of the local sheriff and the county judge. When the two groups joined forces, they renamed the Clarks’ farm, their base of operations, “Justus Township.” They continued to threaten local authorities and teach seminars on how to execute classic Posse Comitatus scams.”

“On day 71 [of a standoff during which the FBI was trying to arrest the members], the FBI cut power to the Freemen Ranch. Finally, on June 13, 1996, the remaining members of the Freemen surrendered peacefully, and the FBI arrested those for whom it had warrants, effectively ending the existence of the Montana Freemen.”

Thus, as with most of the groups listed on this list, RJS is adducing—as part of his sorites of beans being sold to the reader as amounting to a collective non-Islamist terrorist threat worse than that posed by Islamist terrorists—a small rag-tag group of terrorist wackos whose last threat was over 10 years ago and now poses no threat: one more worthless bean in the Reverend’s hill.

Up the IRS, INC.

Strength: Approximately 1 members [!]

Classification: Other [not “Religious”]

Last Attack: Unknown

“Up the IRS, Inc. was the name of a “group,” founded by Dean Harvey Hicks in the mid 1980s, that was responsible for several terrorist bombings against the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) in California.”

“. . .no personal injuries occurred as a result of the bombings, and only material damage was reported. Hicks claimed responsibility through a note, signed by Up the IRS, Inc. to the editor of the Fresno Bee, a local newspaper, for the April 1, 1991 bombing. He was arrested on July 11,1991 at his residence in Costa Mesa, California. No known relationship between Up the IRS, Inc. and other terrorist or political groups exists.”

“Current Goals: Hicks is currently serving twenty years in prison for the bombings conducted by Up the IRS, Inc. after confessing to all bomb attacks during his August 1991 trial. As its founder and sole member is currently incapacitated, no further violence is expected from Up the IRS, Inc in the future.”

Order II

“Dorr, his wife Deborah, Edward and Olive Hawley, and Robert Pires are the only known members of the Order II.”

Strength: Group is inactive

Classification: Racist [not “Religious”]

Last Attack: Unknown

“The group is believed to be responsible for the death of Kenneth Shray, a man accused by the group of being a police informant, as well as seven bombings in Idaho. . . only three of the bombs detonated. No causalties were reported. A week after the bombings, FBI agents arrested Pires, reportedly after learning of a hit list with the names of FBI agents, federal judges, and community leaders and the development of increasingly violent attacks. The Dorrs and Hawleys were arrested shortly after Pires’ surrender.”

“The Order II has not been responsible for any recent attacks nor has the group been mentioned publicly since the trials of its five members.”

“Given their incarcerations and recent paroles, the splintering of the Aryan Nations, and the crackdown on white supremacist violence in recent years, it is unlikely that members of the Order II will conduct violent activities in the future.”

Revolutionary Action Party

First Attack: Aug. 29, 1970

Classification: [left blank]

Strength: Group is inactive

Last Attack: Aug. 29, 1970

“On August 29, 1970 the Revolutionary Action Party detonated a bomb in the Portuguese Embassy to the US, and a second bomb in the Rhodesian Information office, both located in Washington, D.C. The group was previously unknown and although the Secret Service took the threat seriously enough to place agents at these two locations, the group never initiated any further action. The Revolutionary Action Party attacked these locations in protest of American support for the apartheid regime in South Africa.”

Current Goals: Revolutionary Action Party is no longer active.

Republic of Texas (RoT)

Strength: Greater than 300 members

Classification: Nationalist/Separatist, Right-Wing Reactionary [not “Religious”]

Last Attack: Unknown

“RoT also teaches its members to practice redemption (a complicated set of bank fraud techniques, morally justified in the eyes of its practitioners by elaborate conspiracy theories) and paper terrorism (using fraudulent legal documents and filings to harass the government). They do not consider the money orders or comptroller's warrants they issue to be fraudulent, because they believe the United States government has no legal authority to print money. . .”

“In the spring of 1997, several RoT members led by McLaren stormed the house of Joe and Margaret Ann Rowe, who they held for 12 hours as “prisoners of war.” McLaren demanded the release of two RoT members (Ann Turner and Robert Scheidt) in exchange for his hostagesGrebe and Wise were convicted in 1998 of threatening to assassinate several government officials, including President Clinton. Their plan was to build a cigarette lighter that would shoot cactus thorns dipped in biological agents such as anthrax, rabies, botulism, and AIDS.”

“Many members of the Republic of Texas were upset by and openly critical of the criminal activities of McLaren, Grebe and Wise (although all three are listed as prisoners of war on the group's website). The group appears to have decreased in size and become more moderate since the late 90s . Chris Berlet, senior analyst at Political Research Associates, a Boston group that monitors the far right, says the group is no longer a threat to anyone.”

Weather Underground Organization (WUO) / Weathermen

Strength: Group is inactive

Classification: Communist/Socialist [not “Religious”]

Last Attack:Sept. 28, 1973

“1969—During the Days of Rage, Weathermen rioted in the streets, destroying public property, and detonating an explosive at the Haymarket police statue. In December 1969, Weathermen bombed police vehicles to protest the murders of two Black Panther leaders.”

“While attempting to build explosives, a WUO cell blew up themselves and their Greenwich Village townhouse in March 1970. Later that same month, a WUO cell is discovered in Chicago along with a cache of weapons. The Chicago bust severely curtailed WUO’s operational capabilities in Chicago. In another notable criminal act, WUOP members assisted in the prison break-out of Timothy Leary on September 12, 1970. By this time, WUO had moved beyond amorphous “leftist” beliefs and was now supporting communist goals. Several members of the group had traveled to Cuba, where they allegedly met with representatives of the communist governments of Cuba and North Vietnam. In addition, WUO member Linda Sue Evans had traveled to North Vietnam in August 1969.”

“Tensions between PFOC and WUO, as well as the inherent isolation associated with the “underground” status of WUO would eventually lead to the group’s self-implosion in 1977.”

“Current Goals: The Weather Underground Organization (WUO)/Weathermen is no longer active.”

White Patriot Party (WPP)

Strength: Group is inactive

Classification: Racist [not “Religious”]

Last Attack:Unknown

Aryan Nations (AN)

Strength: Unknown number of members

Classification: Racist [not “Religious”—although in the body of the analysis provided by the MIPT website, they note one of the features being “Christian Identity”: though this Christian feature is apparently not Christian enough for the organization’s primary classification to be designated as “Religious”]

Last Attack: Unknown

Financial Sources: Unknown

“Current Goals: During the 1990s, Aryan Nations suffered from internal struggles, and several key leaders departed. In September of 2000, a jury awarded Victoria and Jason Keenan $6.3 million in damages because the two had been chased and shot at by Aryan Nations guards outside the Idaho compound. Butler and Aryan Nations were bankrupted, and the Idaho compound was seized. The group has currently splintered into three factions: one headed by Butler (since deceased), one located in Pennsylvania and led by August Kreis and Charles Juba, and a group calling itself The Church of the Sons of YHVH/Legion of Saints (Church of the Sons of Yahweh), led by Ray Redfeairn (since deceased) and Morris Gulett.”

Finally, with Aryan Nations, the good Reverend will have hit a bit of substantive paydirt, insofar as the splinters into which this terrorist nebula has fallen still pose amorphous threats of violence based upon a quasi-revolutionary creed. And, as I said of the (much smaller) Hammerskin Nation above, such groups as this should indeed be monitored by intelligence; but not to the degree that RJS seems to be calling for—to wit: by expending far more energy and resources against them than against the Islamist terrorist threat. At any rate, this bit of paydirt, at the end of the day, does not let him off the hook of having, with a shamelessly shoddy methodology, piled up a small mountain mostly made up of groups that pose little or no danger, and therefore not in fact amounting to the mountain he apparently purveys it to be: not even amounting to a hill of beans.

Oh, and by the way, the leader noted above of one of the three splinters into which Aryan Nations has fallen—one August Kreis—has gone on record as supporting Islamic jihad against the evil West:

I offer my most sincere best-wishes to those who wage holy Jihad against the infrastructure of the decadent, weak and Judaic-influenced societal infrastructure of the West. I send a message of thanks and well-wishes to the methods and works of groups on the Islamic front against the jew such as Al-Qaeda and Sheik Usama Bin Ladin, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and to all Jihadis worldwide who fight for the glory of the Khilafah [Caliph, or ruler of all Muslims] and the downfall of the anti-life and anti-freedom System prevalent on this earth today.

10 comments:

Russell said...

Good job, Erich!

You obviously put a lot of time and effort in disproving the Reverend's assertions; and hopefully he too will see his errors and stop promoting these falsehoods because they're a dangerous distraction.

Hey Rev -- it's time to spend your time more wisely and focus on the real enemy.

Erich said...

Thanks Russell. Unfortunately, I don't think the Rev. is capable of turning his apparent obsession with "haters" around. After having read his "Hate Watch Hall of Shame" blog on Spencer and Walid Shoebat (as well as a peculiar essay he wrote describing what must have entailed 100 hours of researching some harmlessly kooky lady in her various nicknames on the Net) in addition to his 60+-page pdf document on Spencer -- which includes his description of long period of time where he and Spencer apparently exchanged long emails -- it looks like this Rev has spent literally thousands of feverishly industrious hours trying to pin various "haters" out there in his seemingly elaborate and sophisticated webs (including quite prominently those who criticize Islam and Muslims). And so, when somebody is apparently obsessed on that uncommon level, it is highly doubtful he will be capable of escaping his self-imposed, self-constructed ideological box.

Kab-bin-Ashraf said...

Hesp,

Nice work!

Nobody said...

Islamic Salvation Front

Again, another Islamist terrorist group slips through the infirm radar of RJS to end up on his list that is supposed to show the greater danger of non-Islamist terrorist groups! And once again, as with the Islamist El Rukn terrorist group above, when one examines the quantitative and qualitative substance of the Islamic Salvation Front below, one sees how much deadlier they are (although no longer a present danger) compared with the mostly picayune non-Islamist terrorist groups listed by RJS that also present various degrees of danger (ranging from defunct and no danger at all to small rag-tag groups presenting the possibility that some may “spike trees” and burn down condos, or attack a minority here and there, to varying degrees of somewhat worse things still less worse than the Islamist terrorist threats.).

Date Formed: 1989

Strength: Greater than 4,000 members

Classification: Religious

Last Attack: Sept. 23, 1992

“After Algerian constitutional reforms allowed the creation of political parties for the first time, the FIS filed for legal recognition and was certified as a political party in September 1989. The group won more than 50% of the votes during municipal elections in June 1990.”
Erich

Very meticulously done. In fact, listing FIS - which is the French initials for Algeria's Islamic Salvation Front - is like listing Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas or Taliban in the good Reverend's non-Islamic terror organization list. In 1991, when the party won the popular vote but was prevented from coming to power, the civil war in Algeria started. In fact, this party had on its political platform replacing Algeria's constitution with the Quran. I believe Hugh may have covered them while discussing the Barbers in Algeria.

Listing them as a non-Islamic organization is, as Elaine's doctor friend would put it, breathtaking!

On the other organizations, I think that one would have to demonstrate that their ideology isn't inspired by any religion in the way Jihadi groups are by Islam. Some like the KKK, Aryan Nation, et al are clearly not inspired by Christianity or Atheism: they are simply ideological.

Lady Predator said...

I'm that harmless kooky lady....and most of the "nick names he has for me are the *same name* with different email providers some aren't even me at all.
Most of which he has posted about me isn't even true an I have no idea how even thought I was someone who solicited sex on the internet. I even provided proof. Not that he cared.

Sutter apparently needs a great deal of attention, in the 90's he was posting on the Usenet pretending he was dying. Just do a Google search on "Rev Jim Sutter".

Russell said...

Sutter isn't the only one in need of attention.

Erich, looks like the Hurricane is back posing as a Werewolf.

Erich said...

Russell,

Actually, I don't think the above person has anything to do with the "Hurricane"; after reading Rev. Jim Sutter's blog essay about that lady, it does seem as though it is just some lady that Sutter became obsessed with "exposing" -- I mean, the way Sutter describes his "investigation" of her, he must have put in 100 hours of tracking down various leads on the Internet: an amazing amount of time to spend on just some normal non-famous non-political person on the Netwho doesn't seem to be doing any harm other than perhaps neurotically nosing into other people's public Net lives (which, though annoying and perhaps strange, does not warrant being plastered up on a Hatewatch Hall of Shame blog, for Crissakes.

Also, more to the point: if anything, I would suspect, and expect, that "Ms. Hurricane" would actually support Rev. Jim Sutter's mission and would be on his good side.

Erich said...

Nobody,

You wrote:

"On the other organizations, I think that one would have to demonstrate that their ideology isn't inspired by any religion in the way Jihadi groups are by Islam."

Well, I was doing a couple of things -- one was to show that the terrorist watchdog monitoring website approved of by Rev. Jim Sutter (RJS) does not classify the non-Islamist terrorist groups as "Religious" (yet they do classify one of the two Islamist terrorist groups that slipped through RJS's net as "Religious"). Whether or not more in-depth investigation & analysis of any one of these non-Islamist terrorist groups would yield a religious and/or Christian inspiration or agenda is beside the point that they are not classified as religious by the very same website RJS approves of and uses to marshall his seemingly impressive and massive "evidence".

Secondly, religiousity is not the only thing RJS is claiming about these non-Islamist terrorist groups: he is also claiming that these non-Islamist terrorist groups (whether or not they are religious matters less than the fact that they are not Islamist) are far more deadly than Islamist terrorist groups and therefore warrant far more allocation of time, resources and action. RJS not only marshals his evidence to prove that they are more deadly: he also claims that the FBI already considers them appropriately more deadly and already therefore disposes itself in agreement with RJS's view on the matter. RJS then adduces the 2005 Congressional testimony of FBI Director Mueller and baldly claims Mueller said that non-Islamist terrorism is a worse threat than Islamist terrorism: yet, as my blog esssay showed, Mueller in fact said the opposite.

"Some like the KKK, Aryan Nation, et al are clearly not inspired by Christianity or Atheism: they are simply ideological."

Well, I'd say that the KKK was -- at least in part -- inspired by a "hijacked" version or perversion of Christianity, more like a kind of weird heresy of Christianity.

With Aryan Nation, I note in my essay that the terrorist watchdog monitoring website used by RJS describes one of the features of Aryan Nations as touting "Christian Identity" -- but still, that website does not actually classify Aryan Nation as "Religious" but rather as "Racist". Again, to the extent there might be Christian elements in Aryan Nation, it would be a heretical hijacking and also an intermixing of it with other types of mysticism, magic and possibly Satanist currents -- i.e., roughly the same type of "Christianity" that Hitler had cobbled together for himself.

Rev. Jim Sutter said...

Quite interesting that you throw in a bunch of the groups listed under "historic" and then claim the list is flawed because they no longer exist. You do know the meaning of "historic", don't you?

Also, this is not "my" list, the numerous articles I have on the site about domestic terrorist groups that claim to be of ideological persuasions other than Islam is from the ADL, the SPLC, the FBI, and the Terrorism Information Center.

As to your implication that a single "non-famous, non political person" should not be exposed (even if they are a virulent hate monger with a history of violence and severe mental illness), I wonder how many people thought that about Timothy McVeigh?

On my blog, everyone with a significant net presence, who is a hate monger, gets exposed. I don't care what their claimed ideology is, I don't care if it's a single person or a ten thousand member organization, if they are hate monges, they get exposed.

BTW, your quote from Dir. Mueller contradicts your own claim. I suggest you try reading his entire testimony, perhaps even read his 2007 testimony, where he makes the asame assertion, that these groups are the most serious domestic terrorism threat at this time.

BTW, did you know that your blog is on a banned/blocked list? It seems your own admission that this is a hate site, and the obvious conclusion that you are actually trying to help Spencer improve his hate site, has found you classified for Internet blocking and banning.

Jeanette, don't get jealous, yours is also banned/blocked by the same list. Now go run off and post another several hundred ad hominem posts about me. I'm sure there are still one or two sites where the owner hasn't banned you, most likely fellow hate mongers.

Erich said...

"Quite interesting that you throw in a bunch of the groups listed under "historic" and then claim the list is flawed because they no longer exist. You do know the meaning of "historic", don't you?"

The list isn't flawed; your use of the list is.

"Also, this is not "my" list..."

It is "your" list in the sense that you use it. I know you didn't create the list, and if you read my articles here about the list carefully and with a minimum of intelligence, you would know that. Had you been reading me with care and minimum intelligence, you would also know that I do not discount non-Islamic domestic terrorism; I merely rationally prioritize it.

"As to your implication that a single "non-famous, non political person" should not be exposed (even if they are a virulent hate monger with a history of violence and severe mental illness), I wonder how many people thought that about Timothy McVeigh?"

Of course, a non-famous non-political person who is a virulent hate monger with a history of violence and severe mental illness should be of concern to society; but society should not allow any self-appointed zealot to determine who is a "virulent hate monger with a history of violence and severe mental illness" and who is not: the world contains, unfortunately, many such zealots, many of whom would end up targeting the wrong people if they had the power to do so.

"On my blog, everyone with a significant net presence, who is a hate monger, gets exposed."

That's great, as long as you define "hate monger" appropriately. It doesn't seem that you are capable of that, however.

"BTW, your quote from Dir. Mueller contradicts your own claim."

It would be nice one of these days if you presented an actual argument to back up this claim -- an argument that demonstrates a careful reading of what I have actually written, along with the many other claims you have made in your responses to my essays. I won't hold my breath, however.

"It seems your own admission that this is a hate site"

I have not admitted that my site is a hate site; I have described it as a "hate" site. If you can't tell the difference between mocking sneer quotes and their absence, you need to go back to community college.